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The Mathematics of Blackjack website. Providing feature articles; betting, counting, and playing strategies; math discussion; simulation discussion; The Novice.


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Oddly, completely absent from the discussion about the demand for social and skill-based games is the area of the casino floor that historically.


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Anything else invalidates the very principles of what blackjack is, and, therefore, any other analysis does not apply to the And that's the point of this discussion.


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An independent and uncensored Blackjack Forum community to discuss Card Counting techniques, Strategy, Tournaments, Advantage Play, and more.


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Originally Posted by Mr. Why do I want to play negative counts when there are better opportunities close by, like the next table. Not going to try to argue here because both our opinions are already decided but I think your position is WAY out there. How can thinking be labeled "cheating". IMO the only good ways to count are either to Wong in, meaning you only sit when a count is favorable, because you've been counting while standing off to the side, which isn't allowed pretty much anywhere anymore, or to play as part of a team, which is actually cheating, as I see it. However this is a sentiment often expressed by older players, who played in an era of better conditions and games. It is difficult to sustain a reasonable winrate for your risk when the casino can notice what you're doing and ask you to leave at any time. I am not going to jump up and exit the table, nor am I going to pretend I didn't see and don't have that information. I frequently track multiple tables, the game I am playing and a neighboring table, looking to jump to a better opportunity with zero downtime. Modern games are mostly unplayable. Do not play long. It's a good idea if you're looking to gamble for fun but it's not a great way to make money in Given your threads about losing 20 Powerball tickets in a row, I don't think card counting is for you. I deal tables and can tell you that it can work but you need to be even more devoted to thinking about not getting caught as you are with being skilled at counting. With poker, you can exploit bad players in a nice environment for low stakes. I'm not talking about just reading a book and increasing my edge while betting for fun, but I'm talking seriously learning the game, practicing with software and all that. One night I set my alarm for 3am to get to Circus Circus just in time for a very weak dealers shift. Only in the casino industry's eyes. Can I make reliable money doing this? If you can exploit them, go for it. In the same realm as capping a bet. That just was NOT the way I wanted to win or support myself. Team play is taking it a step further in an attempt to exploit the casino. Originally Posted by GBV. If you can do that, more power to you. Jones Find More Posts by Mr. I can understand that frustration, as games today just aren't as good as the 'glory days'. This makes poker so superior to counting it's not even close. If I were starting from scratch today, I wouldn't bother. But with team play, the traditional call in approach, the player being called in is not the one doing the thinking. Well, this statement is just not true. You can forget the Strip, unless you're playing at the highest levels. But it's unethical. Card counting in BJ can be worth it if you: 1 like to sit at BJ tables and try to hide that you are a counter, especially when it's about the first thing all the pit bosses and eyes in the sky look for I came to poker from low-level counting. BB code is On. Originally Posted by kewlj. Originally Posted by ChipWrecked. Last edited by ChipWrecked; at PM. But it's so difficult to pull off, and easy to protect the game from, it doesn't really matter. Oh yeah if you want to count, some tipping will definitely help you stay longer. Jones Find Threads Started by Mr. It's just my opinion. Advantage play depends on doing something that isn't mainstream. Counting is merely exploiting the nature of the game, dependent trials within the deck. Last edited by browni; at AM. I play blackjack for a living, my 14th year now. Living in a city with many casinos and tables in close proximity, I have tailored my game for my situation, meaning I exit negative counts wong out very aggressively. Generally ignoring these aspects poker is a more profitable game. As I said, it is the casinos responsibility, but for me when you cross over to seeking out that information and weak dealers, you have crossed some sort of line that I am not comfortable with. It gets tiring, having to concentrate so hard for lengths of time both on the count and your cover. I'll take the bait. You can get around this typically playing short sessions, but this causes a lot of down time where you are making no money at all, and the casino will still catch you eventually even if you have the best cover and never stay longer than an hour. It's easy to learn to count. I can see some merit to that argument. Originally Posted by browni When you compare to other similar opportunities out there, card counting is a pretty weak advantage play, IMO. Is it worth learning how to card count, and all the intricacies associated with being successful at the game? But many most are still very beatable. That was the moment I said to myself "what the hell am I doing? My fellow counters won't like my reasoning, I am sure. Anyone have any other thoughts on this? Yes, you can make money, but I wouldn't call it reliable. I don't see ANY relation between Wonging or team play and bet capping. How is team play itself cheating? And as for hole-carding I won't go as far as to say cheating, but it is a gray area for me When I relocated to vegas, 8 years ago, I got into some hole-carding for about a 3 months stretch. Forum Rules. Those that are, aren't worth it. It might be a way of treading water whilsts looking for other profitable opportunities: dealer mispays, some form of card exposure, shuffle-tracking etc etc. All times are GMT {/INSERTKEYS}{/PARAGRAPH} It's physically possible to do and get away with, at least for a while. Which brings us to blackjack. {PARAGRAPH}{INSERTKEYS}User Name Remember Me? So is this for a BJ rule a thing everywhere in Vegas now? Smilies are On. The game is designed to be one on one, player vs. Jones; at AM. Play when other big action is happening. Last edited by Mr. Any places still have for all games? I've been playing poker on and off since the boom, but never put in enough work to be a real winner. I identified weak dealers who flashed their hole card and literally learned their schedules and followed them around. His teammate is, And when that information is passed between players, you can make the case that is colluding, and not a stretch to consider that "cheating". Get in and get out ASAP. I guess it subjectively comes down to what you consider "unplayable" and what you consider "worth it"? Fundamentally I've always been strong, I just suffer from tilt issues. The others are simply further uses of brain power. The sweet spots in decks are few and far between. I've seen plenty of players who could count great but gave zero thought to how to blend in or playing at the optimal time and they ended up getting walked off before they could really do any damage. Counts are often bad. Casinos introduced continuous shufflers into the game. Some blackjack games are more profitable per risk than poker, but these games are rare and often more closely watched. Edit: Wonging is a gray area imo. If you aren't prepared to bet high, you will have a hard time finding a decent game in a place where you aren't worried about being stabbed on the way to your car. Originally Posted by WaKtickets. It really is the casinos responsibility to protect their games, so I don't really have a problem with other players that do so Now, of course, sometimes when you are playing, during the natural course of play, I will run up against a weak dealer and see some hole-cards.